Dialogue With God

This dialogue between us and God was written by Hugh Nibley. I have taken the liberty to make a few changes. 

We: Dear Father, whenever the end is scheduled to be, can't you give us an extension of time? 

He: Willingly. But tell me first, what will you do with it?

We: Well...ah...we will go on doing pretty much what we have been doing; after all, isn't that why we are asking for an extension?

He: And isn't that exactly why I want to end it soon--because you show no inclination to change? Why should I reverse the order of things so that you can go on doing the very things I want to put an end to?

We: But is what we are doing so terribly wrong? The church is growing. We spend time with our families. We attend our meetings and fulfill our religious duties. We are pursuing our careers and becoming self-reliant. Why shouldn't we go on doing the things which have made the nation and the church great?

He: Haven't I made it clear enough to you what kind of greatness I expect of my offspring? Forget the statistics; you are capable of better things--your religious and daily activities don't impress me in the least.

We: But why should we quit when all we are doing is what each considers to be the best for himself and his family?

He: Because it is not you but I who decides what that shall be, and I have told you a hundred times what is best for you individually and collectively--and that is repentance, not matter who you are.

We: We find your inference objectionable, Sir -- quite unacceptable.

He: I know

But We Have The Book! - Impact of His Words!

For he who is unwilling to know how he may attain to life, and prefers to be in ignorance lest he thereby be made guilty, from this very fact is judged as if he knew and had knowledge. For he knew what it was that he was unwilling to hear; and the cunning obtained by the artifice of the serpent will avail him nothing for an excuse... (Clement of Rome, Chapter 18 emphasis added).

I have quoted D&C 10:67-70 several times in this blog to emphasize that only those who are repenting are of His church. When I wrote that President Benson also quoted these same verses to emphasize that being a member of His church is different than being a member of record of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a person asked for a citation, which I provided. I was struck with the thought that more often than not, we just don't take the Lord’s words at face value. Are we reluctant to believe unless we hear it from the pulpit? Are His words not enough to convince us? Isn’t this the definition of treating His words lightly? Is this an example of "...but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" (Hebrews 4:2)?

Another way of treating His words lightly is by ignoring His 'more' or 'nothing' rule. It is never static. You are either receiving a greater portion of His words, or you have hardened your heart, in which case you are "given the lesser portion of the word until (you) know nothing concerning his mysteries..." (Alma 12:10). Are you are passing or failing the test?

But why? What is it about the word 

of God that is so important? This is a recurring theme in this blog and it cannot be said or written too often--the word of God is truth, light, spirit, even the Spirit of Jesus Christ!

Consider the source of His words:

They come from "He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth; Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made" (D&C 88:6-7 emphasis added).

I've quoted Hugh Nibley before saying that the Book of Mormon was not given to us to convince us, but to convict us. But convict us of what, I ask? Just being ignorant or being willfully ignorant?

Having been given the Book of Mormon can we ever have an excuse? Can we hold this precious book in our hands and yet remain clueless of its message to us--to you?

Consider this summary, all from God, keeping in mind that Christ taught only His Father's words (John 12:49-50).

1. What the word of God is.

His words are truth (D&C 84:45).

His words are light (ibid).

His words are His Spirit (ibid).

His words are Him!

He is the word!

His words are treasures.

The word of God is a two-edged sword.

Sword of truth is the word of God.

Word of God is intelligence or in other words, light and truth 

He is the word, is in the word and the word is in Christ. 

One word from the mouth of God strikes everything else as insignificant. 

2. What the word of God does.

We are judged by His words.

Without His words we abide in darkness.

His words divide us.

His words cut the chains of hell.

His words anger some and please others. 

His words take us beyond this vale of sorrow.

The word or rod of iron, is the weapon God uses to judge and make war.

His words unite us.

His words enlighten and awaken us.

His words reclaim us.

His words shine His light on us.

His words test us.

His words convey His anger, wrath and judgment. 

His words convey His love, mercy and joy.

His words are brought to our remembrance through the Holy Ghost.

His words lift us.

Nothing is more effective than the word of God.

His words lead us to the Tree of Life.

His words tell us all that we must do.

His words can become our words.

His words can be found in us.

Through His words we receive more or less.

Faith comes by hearing His words.

We are humbled because of His words.

Enoch spake forth the words of God and the people trembled.

We can hear His voice in His words.

The word of God nourishes us.

The desire to repent comes from hearing the word of God.

Without His words we remain ignorant and unaware.

One word from the mouth of God strikes everything else as insignificant.

We can only tell whether one is a true messenger of God by the message.

His words condemn us.

3. What are we to do with, or how do we respond to, the word of God.

Get in the way by His words.

Stay in the way through His words.

We either believe or do not believe His words.

We hear His words.

We hear His voice in His words.

We see by His words.

Understand His words with our hearts.

Humble ourselves because of His words.

We are to treasure up continually the words of life.

Feast upon the words of Christ.

First seek to obtain my word, then shall your tongue be loosed.

Hold fast to His words.

Search His words.

Enjoy His words of eternal life in this world.

Angels speak the words of Christ.

We can speak with tongue of angels.

We write His words.

We teach His words.

We expound upon His words.

Whoso read let him understand.

He who denies God's revelations has not read the scriptures.

Give heed unto the word of God.

Hearken unto my voice and believe.

Study His words.

And now, remember the words of him who is the life and light of the world, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God.

We plant His words in our hearts.

His words properly nourished, grow into a tree of knowledge, a tree of Life  whose fruit is most desirable.

Through His words we know our condition here and what is expedient for us.

His words are found in us.

His words are not to be treated lightly.

Those who speak with the tongue of angels speak the word of God.

If we believe the words of God, we believe Christ.

We are more likely to believe God's words if we are not compelled to believe, but just desire to know and believe.

If we truly humble ourselves because of the word, we will repent and find mercy.

God is merciful to those who believe on His name, and this is why He desires that we believe, "yea, even on his word."

We can come to know that they are true by experimenting on his words. 

The idea that we do not have to believe anything that is not true, and that we can know the truth for ourselves through God's word, is unique in world religions today.

We either believe Christ or we don't, and if we believe Christ, we will believe in Christ and repent and find mercy. 

Certainly by being enticed by one or the other (good or evil), we are putting ourselves in a better position to choose good, and the word is the catalyst to do so.

Alma asks. "I would ask if ye have read the scriptures? If ye have, how can ye disbelieve on the Son of God?"

And if they do plant and nourish the word by their faith "it will become a tree, springing up in you unto everlasting life."

"And it came to pass that after they had found out the minds of all the people, those who were in favor of the words which had been spoken by Alma and his brethren were cast out of the land."

"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."

Live by every word that comes from the mouth of God.

We don't just ignore but we rebel against the word of God.

We should not leave the word of God and serve tables.

Word of God does not abide in you.

The words of God shall be fulfilled.

Some are slain for the word of God.

All but those armed with His words will be deceived.

"How great the importance to make these things known to the inhabitants of the earth" (why?) "that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah...." 

Can you say that you know good from evil because you have been instructed sufficiently? 

To those that hear the word of God and believe the word of God, they are to also teach the word of God. 

The word of God is the instrument used by the Lord to cause men to repent and turn to Him. 

It is the exactness of His words that is sharper than a two-edged that will divide the righteous from the wicked.

Another way of saying the above is that God's words must be used, like musical notes, with exactness, not watered down, not transfigured, not mingled with the precepts of men. 

And finally these words to conlude this post:

"And the whole world lieth in sin, and groaneth under darkness and under the bondage of sin. 

And by this you may know they are under the bondage of sin, because they come not unto me. 

For whoso cometh not unto me is under the bondage of sin. 

And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me. 

And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.

Verily, verily, I say unto you who now hear my words, which are my voice, blessed are ye inasmuch as you receive these things..." (D&C 84:49-53; 60).

When Nephi prophecies that there will be a great division among the people, it will be because of His words, those that believe them on one hand, and those who do not, on the other, which is the precise meaning of the parable of the 10 virgins: "For they that are wise and have received the truth (His words), and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived--verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day." (D&C 45:56-57 emphasis added). 

"And I know that they will be preserved; for there are great things written upon them, out of which my people and their brethren shall be judged at the great and last day, according to the word of God which is written" (Words of Mormon 1:11 emphasis added).

Yes, we have the Book!

"What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants,* it is the same" (D&C 1:38 emphasis added).

*Anyone who teaches His words including those who have thrust in their sickles to reap, those armed with the word of God because they have obtained His words.

Assyria in Isaiah's Prophecy

If Egypt is Isaiah's endtime America, then who is Isaiah’s endtime Assyria? Could it be Russia, China or even an alliance of nations?

If Isaiah predicts what happens at the end of the world based on what happened in his own day or soon thereafter, who is the end-time equivalent of ancient Assyria—a militaristic world power from the North whose expansionist aims in that day put other nations of the world in fear of it?

God does not obey the words of Isaiah and orchestrate world events to suit Isaiah’s manner of prophesying. Rather, in his vision of the end from the beginning, Isaiah saw that history repeats itself—that “what has been [in the past], it is what shall be” (Ecclesiastes 1:9; 3 Nephi 23:3), as discussed before. By establishing historical precedents, God creates scriptural patterns that act as a guide to what he will do in the future, particularly at the end, when the world counts down to destruction.

In other words, the past, as Isaiah depicts it, typifies what will happen again. There will arise a new Assyrian type of world power whose king figure, like his predecessor, conquers the world. He too commits genocide on a world scale, destroys much of humanity, lays the earth waste, and seeks to destroy the people of God (only those who are repenting) . That end-time version of ancient Assyria, however, merely acts as God’s instrument of punishing those who fail to repent of evil after having been warned, i.e., the wicked punishing the wicked.

Assyria, moreover, doesn’t act alone in its evil designs to rule the world. Like its predecessor, it forms an alliance of wicked nations—an “axis of evil”—to help it conquer all nations. Sparking God’s retribution upon the world is the unrepentant condition of His own people. When the last bastion of righteousness falls, God intervenes and empowers the Assyrian alliance against them and all nations. But after the wicked have destroyed the wicked, Assyria itself falls and is subdued.

The Isaiah verses quoted here are from Gileadi's Isaiah Translation. I have also linked the KJV Isaiah chapters for your reference.

When the leaders of the people of Ephraim mock, God warns of his imminent retribution:

Isaiah 28:21–22

Jehovah will rise up as he did on Mount Perazim, and be stirred to anger, as in the Valley of Gibeon—to perform his act, his unwonted act, and do his work, his bizarre work.

Now therefore scoff not, lest your bonds grow severe, for I have heard utter destruction decreed by my Lord, Jehovah of Hosts, upon the whole earth.

Isaiah specially prophecies that the Lord’s latter-day people will fail to heed His voice and repent, so He will speak unto them with a foreign tongue (a pseudonym of the end-time king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance):

Isaiah 28:7-11

These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.

They are intoxicated with wine (self deception) and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.

For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement.

Whom shall he give instruction? Whom shall he enlighten with revelation? Weanlings weaned from milk, those just taken from the breast?

For it is but line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept; a trifle here, a trifle there.

Therefore, by incomprehensible speech and a strange tongue must he speak to these people.

God gathers together a wonderful army to cleanse the earth and humanity of wickedness:

Isaiah 13:4–5

Hark! A tumult on the mountains, as of a vast multitude. Hark! An uproar among kingdoms, as of nations assembling: Jehovah of Hosts is marshaling an army for war.

They come from a distant land beyond the horizon—Jehovah and the instruments of his wrath—to cause destruction throughout the earth.

The nation of “Egypt”—a codename of America—sends emissaries to forestall disaster:

Isaiah 18:1–2

Woe to the land of buzzing wings beyond the rivers of Cush, which sends emissaries by sea, in swift craft across the water!

[They say,] Go speedily, you messengers!

Go to a people perpetually on the move, a nation dreaded far and wide, a people continually infringing, whose rivers have annexed their lands.

Unlike the people of God in their corrupt state, the Assyrian army is highly disciplined:

Isaiah 5:26–29

He raises an ensign to distant nations and summons them from beyond the horizon.

Forthwith they come, swiftly and speedily.

Not one of them grows weary, nor does any stumble; they do not drowse or fall asleep.

Their waist-belts come not loose nor their sandal thongs undone.

Their arrows are sharp; all their bows are strung.

The tread of their warhorses resembles flint; their chariot wheels revolve like a whirlwind.

They have the roar of a lion; they are aroused like young lions: growling, they seize the prey, and escape, and none comes to the rescue.

God encourages the righteous of his people who seek refuge in Zion to rely upon him:

Isaiah 10:24–25

Therefore, thus says my Lord, Jehovah of Hosts:

O my people who inhabit Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrians, though they strike you with the rod or raise their staff over you, as did the Egyptians.

For my anger will very soon come to an end; my wrath will become their undoing.

God will overthrow the Assyrian alliance with his whip and staff, his end-time servant:

Isaiah 10:26–27

Jehovah of Hosts will raise the whip against them, as when he struck the Midianites at the Rock of Oreb.

His staff is over the Sea, and he will lift it over them as he did to the Egyptians.

In that day their burdens shall be lifted from your shoulders, their yoke [removed] from your neck: the yoke [that wore away your fatness] shall by fatness wear away.

The Assyrian alliance meets a similar fate to what it sought to bring upon other nations:

Isaiah 14:21

Prepare for the massacre of their sons, in consequence of their fathers’ deeds, lest they rise up again and take possession of the world, and fill the face of the earth with cities.

The Assyrian alliance, once resembling an unstoppable tsunami, dries up and blows away:

Isaiah 17:12–14

Woe to the many peoples in an uproar, who rage like the raging of the seas—tumultuous nations, in commotion like the turbulence of mighty waters!

Nations may roar like the roaring of great waters, but when he rebukes them they will flee far away; they will be driven before the wind like chaff on the mountains, or as whirling [dust] in a storm.

At evening time shall be the catastrophe and before morning they shall be no more.

This is the lot of those who plunder us, the fate of those who despoil us.

The nation of Assyria, once aggressive and expansionist, ultimately brings tribute to Zion:

Isaiah 18:7

At that time shall tribute be brought to Jehovah of Hosts from a nation perpetually on the move, from a nation dreaded far and wide, a people continually infringing, whose rivers have annexed their lands, to the place of the name of Jehovah of Hosts: Mount Zion.

There is a reason that Christ said that 'great are the words of Isaiah,' and commanded that we should search them diligently. Why? So that we will be prepared, repent, and warn others.

See America in Isaiah's Prophecy 

Where will you be on Isaiah’s ladder when these events take place?

America in Isaiah's Prophecy

If God foretold “the end from the beginning” and commanded the prophet Isaiah to “write it in a book for the end-time,” then where in his prophecies does he talk about America? It is more than an assumption that America will play a huge role in any end-of-the-world scenarios just as it did in the first and second world wars, both of which changed the world. There is a key that unseals this and other mysteries in the book of Isaiah that makes America's end-time role plain to our understanding.

While the "Egypt as America" interpretation is common in certain Christian and Jewish prophecy circles, it is not the consensus view among most academic biblical scholars, who tend to emphasize the original historical context and meaning of Isaiah's words.

But Christ said "And all things that he (Isaiah) spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake" (3 Nephi 23:3 emphasis added). Christ also confirms in the New Testament that many prophecies from Isaiah about Jehovah’s day of judgment still await their final fulfillment before Christ comes again.

To the Hebrew prophets human history wasn’t linear but cyclical. In other words, history repeats itself but on an ever-bigger scale as the human race multiplies. What happens at the end of the world must therefore have had a precedent or series of precedents in the past. The writer of Ecclesiastes concurs with the Lord when he says:

“What has been, it is what shall be; that which has been done, it is what shall be done. There’s nothing new under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 1:9). 

Isaiah’s and the prophecies of other Old Testament prophets like Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Daniel, are at the same time both historical and end-time. They combine events of the past to describe events that will happen again, and they also use historical entities and people as composites to more clearly describe end-time entities and people. 

For example Isaiah uses both Egypt and Ephraim to more clearly identify America. He also uses both Assyria and Babylon to describe the latter-day world power that will destroy both people and countries before Christ's second coming. 

Inevitably, America participates in all end-time events. But which nation in the past do we suppose set a precedent for America’s role in the world’s coming countdown to destruction on the one hand and deliverance on the other? Was there a world superpower in the past that typifies end-time America? 

Yes, there’s one nation in the Book of Isaiah that matches America—Egypt. As the great superpower of the ancient world, Egypt set a perfect precedent for America today.

Isaiah’s depiction of ancient Egypt as a type of America, however, doesn’t bode well for people expecting only good news—those who live in self-deception, unwilling or no longer capable of discerning the truth. Isaiah has a habit of giving the bad news first and then the good news. So it is with America under its codename “Egypt.” To make it easier, try superimposing “America,” its capital "Washington" and its "President" on Isaiah’s Egypt and their equivalent and you be the judge.

The Isaiah verses quoted here are from Gileadi's Isaiah Translation. I have also linked the KJV Isaiah chapters for your reference.

Isaiah 19:11–15

The ministers of Zoan* (Washington DC) are utter fools; the wisest of Pharaoh’s (the President's) advisers give absurd counsel.

How can you say to Pharaoh (the President), We ourselves are as wise as the first rulers?

Where are your wise men indeed?

Let them please tell you, if they can discern it, what the Lord of Hosts has in mind for Egypt (America)!

The ministers of Zoan* (Washington DC) have been foolish, the officials of Noph* (Washington DC) deluded; the heads of state have led Egypt (America) astray.

The Lord has permeated them with a spirit of confusion; they have misled Egypt (America) in all that it does, causing it to stagger like a drunkard into his vomit. 

And there shall be nothing the Egyptians (Americans) can do about it, neither head nor tail, palm top or reed.

Political ineptitude by Egypt’s (America's) heads of state brings the nation into anarchy and civil war:

Isaiah 19:2–3

I will stir up the Egyptians (Americans) against the Egyptians (Americans); they will fight brother against brother and neighbor against neighbor, city against city and state against state.

Egypt’s (America's) spirit shall be drained from within; I will frustrate their plans, and they will resort to the idols and to spiritists, to mediums and witchcraft.

A dictatorial ruler or kingman will take the reins of government and oppress the nation:

Isaiah 19:4

Then will I deliver the Egyptians (Americans) into the hand of a cruel master; a harsh ruler will subject them, says the Lord, the Lord of Hosts.

Collapsing within, Egypt (America) faces an end-time king of Assyria (China, Russia or a coalition of nations?)—God’s hand of punishment:

Isaiah 19:16

In that day the Egyptians (Americans) will be as women, fearful and afraid at the brandishing hand the Lord of Hosts wields over them.

Still unrepentant, the nation of Egypt (America) suffers destruction from the sky that is God’s doing:

Isaiah 19:1

When the Lord enters Egypt (America) riding on swift clouds, the idols of Egypt (America) will rock at his presence and the Egyptians’ (Americans') hearts melt within them.

Once relied upon for its military might, in the end Egypt (America) proves to be of no help to others:

Isaiah 31:1–3

Woe to those who go down to Egypt (America) for help, relying on horses putting their trust in immense numbers of chariots and vast forces of horsemen, but who do not look to the Holy One of Israel, nor inquire of the Lord!

Yet he too is shrewd and will bring disaster [upon them], and not retract his words.

He will rise up against the brood of miscreants and allies of evildoers.

The Egyptians (Americans) are human, not divine; their horses are flesh, not spirit: when the Lord stretches out his hand, those who help them will stumble and those helped will fall; both shall come to an end together.

Isaiah 30:2–5

They are bent on going down to Egypt (America), but have not inquired at my mouth on seeking protection in Pharaoh’s (the President's) forces, on taking shelter in Egypt’s (America's) shadow.

But Pharaoh’s (the President's) protection shall turn to your shame, shelter in Egypt’s (America's) shadow to embarrassment.

For all their officials at Zoan (Washington DC), and their envoys’ travels to Hanes,* they shall be utterly disgusted with a people who will avail them nothing;

[they shall be] of no help or benefit, but a humiliation and disgrace.

But there’s a redeeming side to the story. To his people (a minority who repent) who call on him, God sends help:

Isaiah 19:20

When they (those who are repenting) cry out to the Lord because of the oppressors, he will send them a savior, who will take up their cause and deliver them.

To those who offer an acceptable sacrifice by covenant, he shows himself, healing them:

Isaiah 19:21–22

The Lord will make himself known to the Egyptians (Americans), and the Egyptians (Americans) shall know the Lord in that day.

They (who are repenting) will worship by sacrifice and offerings, and make vows to the Lord and fulfill them.

The Lord will smite Egypt (America), and by smiting heal [it]: they will turn back to the Lord, and he will respond to their pleas and heal them.

In the end, Egypt’s (America's) covenanters succeed in converting many to the Lord, the God of Israel:

Isaiah 19:23–25

In that day there shall be a highway from Egypt to Assyria.

Assyrians shall come to Egypt and Egyptians go to Assyria, and the Egyptians shall labor with the Assyrians.

In that day Israel shall be the third party to Egypt and to Assyria, a blessing in the midst of the earth.

The Lord of Hosts will bless them, saying,

Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel my inheritance.

Zion will be established by remnants of Israel, which are gathered in a great exodus, to both the old Jerusalem (Jews and 10 Tribes), and in America to the new Jerusalem (Lehi’s descendants). Those Gentiles who repent will be numbered among the House of Israel. 

*Zoan and Noph were governing capitals of ancient Egypt. Hanes also served as a capital of ancient Egypt.

Next: Assyria in Isaiah's Prophecy